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<jfhs> (SPOILER) Cook: adsfasdf |
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<noname> Great level! |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Escape beginners lesson #1: Don't upload a speedrun before downloading the existing one... I haven't played for a while ;-) |
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<SPAM> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 22 moves (old: 30). Quicker cooking. <SPAM> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 30 moves (old: 101). Hm, I guess you could call this a cook? |
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<Jim> This was a lot harder than it appeared, nice level! |
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<Jim> (SPOILER) I finally solved this one, only 3 left in triage now for me (Botkoban 3, Land of 10000 Bots, and of course block cipher which I never intend on trying). |
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<ggned> hard but good ! |
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<radiant> No, it's the level called (appropriately enough) "twins". The Final Dance seems rather difficult to implement, if it's even possible at all, because some tiles are subject to multiple types of hazards passing over them and we only have two layers to work with. <wowei> wonderful implementation of a nice lill game. is this "the final dance"? <radiant> This idea of traps ignoring the rising edge (where panels wouldn't) has been extremely underutilized over the years. I would just suggest putting an exit square in the lower grid so that it's easier to decipher if you haven't played the original game. |
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<ggned> i love xD easy but ... long ! ! |
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<mm> (SPOILER) Wowei, knowing kind of a lot about the original and "old" levels unfortunately does not seem to help me finding any solution for these new versions. But I'll certainly keep on trying. <wowei> (SPOILER) Jim, i didnt want to say, its easy - not at all it is, and inho your find is great. Of course the solution is very hard to see and i only can imagine it took a long time to discover, but ... if you already know the original plan and you are told then: "dont use red", then the problem becomes a little bit more easy to solve. |
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<Delvin> Don't see any bug here myself. Turn 1: Player steps off trap 1 to button 1. Hole 1 in b-world. Turn 2: Player steps from button 1 to button 2, flipping trap 2 twice. Then bot moves down dropping trap 2 and flipping hole 1 back. It's just that the bot obscures the first double flip. If you move it away and add an identical panel it activates you can see three flips. |
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<N7DOT 3> I ctrl-0'd and it solved this level. |
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<radiant> (SPOILER) That position can actually be reached in 38, but does bot 4 really need to be blocked off like that? <Jim> (SPOILER) I lined up the bots #4, #2, #3 from the top to the bottom in the 3rd column from the left, where I am to the left of bot #3. I will leave it to you to figure out how, but I was able to do this in 43 moves. That is the only way I've been able to get the #1 bot out. This still does not lead to a solution, I have yet to solve this level. |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) The original level was built with to have a great deal of misdirection as to the true purpose of the components while at the same time having no hidden information (that's why when you press d it is very clear what goes where). This made it vulnerable to being cooked. It has stayed out of the graveyard so far because it's so cookable (and therefore mod-able) and yet still remains a tricky level. Jim's solution is definitely a cook because it utilises the only component put there for misdirection only. It only works at all because of the guard bot cook (as explored in Kirima's mods) but Jim would not have known about this. noname's version does reduce the problem space and could be argued to make the others easier. What I find a pity, and it's entirely my own fault, is the loss of the intended bot ordering problem to protect the guard bot. <Jim> (SPOILER) I'm going to disagree with you Wowie, I think this solution is extremely difficult to see, it took me months to find it originally. I didn't see Dave's twist to it until today, your latest level actually simplified discovering it so IMHO this is the only new version that we need to keep. Also, this solution does not work for the 5 and 6 bot versions, those solutions are still unique. |
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<wowei> Hell, it's gone - not eclipsed only - Mars silently disappeared. Oh my oh my, the martians wont be too happy about it, and thatswhy they turn green from time to time. |
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<wowei> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 452 moves (old: 731). I liked the original idea a lot, where you have to put two bots in position and then let them push wires to the right places in the right time. Jim's find can probably be considered a cook of that sequence. Kirima, it's a total different approach here, and i'm pretty sure you'll get it quick. I wonder if the 6- and the great 5-bot version are cooked too now. <Dave> I have a feeling this level is be destined for the graveyard, but not just yet. |
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<Dave> Aargh! The two Enigmas aren't ctrl-0 compatible. |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) N7DOT: Trust your logic! What you say is all good until you hit the word 'however'. You've played this enough to know to stick to the facts, and if you see it's a causal loop then it must be camouflage. If you know you have to trigger the blue light then trigger it. What usually happens immediately afterwards and is this mishap the only possible outcome? Create a way to control what happens on the next move - that's the real puzzle. |
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