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<bpotetz> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 121 moves (old: 126). Clever. |
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<Max> I found this one pretty easy, actually... |
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<John Lewis> Weird...when I solved this, my move count was exactly at 999. ;-) (The game automatically optimized it to 847.) I really need to improve my speedruns on these longer levels... 60 levels left (actually, 59 now)... |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) This is a tight level, but I agree that the first part was a bit repetitive. I do also see that is sort of the point of the level, so... |
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<Doom> (SPOILER) Of course it's been more complicated than that to make the program work. I wasn't talking about writing the program. Just using it. But I know what you mean. Personally, I don't have any real problems with Adam using his program. I'm not that much of a speedrunner anyway. They're mostly a cool addon in the game. But it's also more cool to do things yourself than letting something do them for you. Adam might have the most speed records in the future, but people like noname will still be the best speedrunners... |
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<Doom> (SPOILER) The first part was a little too repeating for me, but the bot pushing in the end was more interesting. |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) Well, again I should emphasise that Adam has done a LOT of work to write the program, so it's not just pushing a button. And again, the program won't work on most levels. I hear it doesn't work on hardly any of my post-2003 levels, in fact, except for the letter series. Still, I do understand the sentiment. Aside from making levels that are strategically hard, so that computers can't yet solve them, is there something we can do to make everyone happy? <Doom> (SPOILER) I think, that it is in a way unfair to use a program to solve levels. All you need is to press a button and BAM, a speedrun! The solutions are interesting to see, though. But they kinda defeat the purpose of competing for speed records. <Tom 7> (SPOILER) Sure, I think so, for a number of reasons: The (essentially) brute-force search is going to be limited to fairly simple levels (although I have been surprised at what it has been able to tackle, so far), so most levels will remain outside its grasp. If you do indeed make an optimal speed run, then you've got the record forever; no program can improve on the optimum! If Adam would agree to maybe hold off on optimizing new levels for a week or two after they're uploaded, that'll give humans a chance to do their best. Third, the speed run system is meant to inspire competition and help give an incentive to find cooks, but there aren't points or rankings or anything, so it's not really a big deal who has the speedrun. Personally speaking, I like to speedrun, and I feel good when I beat a record, but I really do like seeing people beat my records, especially when I had convinced myself that I had found the shortest possible solution. Finally, since he wrote the program himself, he did at least "pay his dues" in the sense of putting a lot of work into it.. although that's less direct than actually solving them manually, it is at least "fair" in the sense of getting payoff for work. <John Lewis> (SPOILER) Which makes me wonder: is Adam's use of a program fair? I spend a lot of time trying to analyze levels to come up with (hopefully) optimized solutions...anyway, just curious. :-) <Tom 7> (SPOILER) Yeah, I'd call that pretty clever except that a computer came up with it! ;) But, a good cook... <Feanor> Nice solution, Adam! |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 84 moves (old: 85). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 83 moves (old: 89). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 69 moves (old: 80). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 37 moves (old: 69). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 201 moves (old: 209). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) (note: speedrun of 86 moves didn't break record; not added) Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 16 moves (old: 22). Optimal |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) (note: speedrun of 86 moves didn't break record; not added) Optimal |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 127 moves (old: 131). Optimal |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) Of course, the problem is the same as usual: I simply ran out of disk space on the server. <Tom 7> Oops, posting when using Adam's player file obviously makes the message seem to come from him. ;) Tom 7 assumes responsibility for this bug! <Adam> OK, well whatever this bug is, I definitely need to fix it. <John Lewis> It's doing the same thing for me...:-( |
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