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<mm> Thanks for creating these new mods that seem totally impossible to solve... -> I guess it will take me more than 6 months if ever. ;-) <Dave> (SPOILER) And then there were three... Until you uploaded Mars Drift I thought that this was the one part of 7B7B that was pretty rigid and, despite all the tinkering by wowei, mm, and myself, remained invariant throughout the series. Prior to yesterday it never even occured to me to look for alternatives. I very much doubt it will take you the full six months :) |
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<N7DOT 3> happy to know that it is a good level. |
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<N7DOT 3> I am guessing this one is impossible like 'The Dalek Question' as there are no uploaded solutions to it. |
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<N7DOT 3> I also hope it can be modded into something good like 'a snack' was able to. |
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<N7DOT 3> (SPOILER) Yeah, that makes sense. the only way I see to get the door onto the normal world is to use the remotes at top, but you need the daleks at the bottom to help you with connecting the remotes to the wires. But to get the daleks over to the panels, you have to use (at least) the blue light, since the red one lets the bottom-most dalek commit suicide, and the green one does the same for the upper-most dalek that is in the left half of the level. However, the only ways I see to trigger the blue light are to let the daleks at the bottom move onto the panels and press the button, which is a causal loop problem, and therefore is not possible, or to grab the NE wire, but you have to deactivate the laser first, which also is a causal loop problem. I also don't want to do some of the moves since then some blocks get stuck permanently. |
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<Jim> Yikes Dave, I was thinking this wasn't possible when I made Mars drift, now I'm forced to try to solve this. Thanks for giving me something to do for the next 6 months! |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Jim, that's a very impressive solution :-O Is that how you first solved the original or did you come up with it later? |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Hi N7DOT. I think these levels have been around long enough for a small hint. Where to start... This is all about planning. Break it down into two distinct problems (1. Get the door out of bizzaro world; 2. Get the heart) and focus on the first one only. Pay close attention to the bottom left section and you should be able to figure out a very specific sequence of events that need to be triggered. This refers to the intended solution but there may be another way because at this moment I don't have a clue how Jim's mod is solved. |
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<N7DOT 3> What is the idea behind this level, and therefore the 'series'? I know, "get to the exit", but sometimes I don't get how I even start some levels. |
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<N7DOT 3> This is much better than your first one, as it doesn't involve guess & check. However, the puzzle is very simple and anyone could probably make and upload a level in this style in less than 10 minutes, and many players here could likely make it in less than 3 minutes. For a level to get a good score, you want to make the level interesting, neat, possibly suprising when a person tries to rush through an early part to discover that they need to go through that part again or if they no longer have something that got used/lost there (use to make level more like 'woah' than 'this is so tedious' (can result from trying to make a level hard) or *tugging on hair in frustration* ), and put a good amount of effort, time, and testing. (mods don't usually need as much time unless it is a very delicate or difficult mod, or makes the level very hard) Simple mods of good levels that make them harder often can do well if the mod is in good taste. Basically, please try to make good levels, as players are satisfied more easily and quickly by good levels than by poor ones. Not to discourage you from playing, as it's often good to have more players. |
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<N7DOT 3> At first I didn't know what level this was based off of due to the name "Mars Drift", but when I saw the group of four bots at the top, I quickly realized the level was another modification for "Seven bots for Seven buttons" I'm pretty sure this will get good ratings. |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 569 moves (old: 570). Now that's a bit more like a cook... and all to shave 1 move. |
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<radiant> (SPOILER) That move sequence isn't a solution to the Pons Asinorum analog position, and it's not actually a solution here either (since the exit doesn't open up). In addition to checking for the right colors, the panels also encode edge parity, even if not in a way that's particularly visible. <N7DOT 3> still really good level, though <N7DOT 3> darn, i just realized that should have been a spoiler! at least the level is easy enough without help... so WARNING! DO NOT READ COMMENT DIRECTLY BELOW IF YOU DON'T LIKE SPOILERS! sorry, realised it immediately after posting <N7DOT 3> very nice implementation. however, there are two non-equivalent positions that satisfy the starting position, meaning that from the position given, the sequence L U R D L U results in a solution, while on the actual puzzle, depending on which starting position is chosen, it may or may not result in a solution, and so although the machinism may be flawless, it isn't a full implementation. |
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<N7DOT 3> Sorry, I just had alot of trouble making this level, and I'm also sorry about forgetting to credit the inventor of the puzzle this is based on. <Dave> radiant: binary adder was an impressive demonstration of how much boolean algebra can be compressed into such a small area. I agree that the 3x3x1 is implementable, but for this to be a worthwhile excercise we need to get into 3 dimensions and find a solution to the 2x2x2 problem. My question is: how do you implement six colours whilst maintaining any reference to the tactile feel or appearance of the cube? <radiant> Observe that in a Rubik's Floppy using U, D, L, and R as generators, each move consists simply of swapping two pairs of blocks, and the central block on each side is invariant under all moves (except that on the actual device it has a parity signal, not that this has any effect on otherwise-valid solutions). I see a line of attack to implement this without allowing invalid moves (pushing a side off to the right or down and then not putting it back, or else manipulating the blocks so that they go back in non-reversed order), and if I can do it in reasonably compact space then I might just upload it. It's well-established by now that Escape is Turing-complete and so even the full 3x3x3 cube would be possible to implement in theory, except that the limits on board dimensions probably cap at too low a value to allow all 6 generators to be expressed. Demonstrations like this can still get points in style; they just need to be sufficiently recognizable (the 1x3x3 "puzzle" is far more obscure than the traditional 3x3x3, and even the 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 variants) and work properly. See something like #2894 (8-Bit Binary Adder), which has the additional point that there's at least an (admittedly trivial) goal which has to be accomplished before the exit opens, as opposed to just being able to head off to the exit at any time, even mid-move. In fact, if not for me telling you now, you wouldn't know that the level was originally supposed to have a "Clear" mechanism so you could reset everything and try multiple additions without having to go back to move 0; this was eventually scrapped after I had to settle for a carry mechanism that couldn't account for the garbage it would leave. <Dave> A Rubik's Cube implementation relies upon simultaing a rotational movement with only linear motion available. This is where your level fails as soon as you put the side back in place and try to make a second turn. If I had thought of a way of doing this I would have done it already, which is not to say it's impossible, I just can't see a suitable method. I will keep pondering it though. PS. You already know my thoughts on the ratings situation, it is a problem. <N7DOT 3> oops... i meant ALL my implementations, not NONE of my implementations... <N7DOT 3> why did I waste so much of my time on this level? none of my implementations are either already done or flawed to the point that they no longer are worth the time, it seems. I have two other implementations that will be neat, and one will be kind of difficult, but they are difficult enough to make that i don't see myself uploading them. if this level has poor style, i'd really like to see somebody actually TRY to make a rubik's cube implementation WITHOUT using this level as a guideline; A.K.A. from SCRATCH. sorry if this seems a harsh conclusion... it's just there are some levels i really want to make, but the work is too much to be justified, due to getting any rating beyond 5 for style becoming very hard to get, unless the difficulty is above 6 and the level still has style above 4 otherwise. I Absolutely hate to say it, but it really does seem like Escape is dying. |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Hi kyran, I forgot to mention something: This level is messy... but I for some reason really I like it. |
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<Gil Anthony> Most levels I get,this one not so much. I just hate it when I got to revisit. good level. |
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