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<Dave> PPS. Please do not delete this one yet. <Dave> (SPOILER) Hi Mark. The only reason I didn't rate is because I already knew a solution, so it wouldn't really be fair. I was going to upload this solution as a speedrun but decided it might be better to deploy it instead. Not because it's trickier, it's actually much much simpler, so probably easier to find, and definitely easier to work with inside a more difficult mod... I spent enough hours getting 12e3b to work at all (I had to solve it the hard way too!), the last thing it needs (assuming it doesn't get cooked) is any pointless or unnecessary complications. Anyway, as you are fully aware, we are only discussing a minor adjustment to one method, well, strictly speaking, it's exactly the same method deployed in a different place on the board inside exactly the same core solution. Anyway, back to the point of this waffle. I do know what you mean about the frustration of people not rating. If I don't rate or upload a run you can be sure there is a good reason. If I solve and don't rate, I will always let you know straight away through comments. I hate being in the dark too. PS. The undo button, no time limits and no hidden information: That's why I love this game. |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Your original solution is closer to the mark than you realise. It's only a matter of time... |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Oh well, I modded and deleted already. 12e3b should force a tighter solution, I nicked one of your ideas from 12g, but the basic concept is the same as 12e2. If it works as planned, it adds one new challenge to the existing idea. If does allow a new cook which wont work on 12e2 then please let me know. If this is the case, then maybe we should re-instate 12e2 and call it quits. To be honest, I fully expected 12e2 to get cooked. Maybe I got it right for once! |
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<Dave> I did test the water about stopping before. And, yes given time, it would be possible to make this almost unsolvable. It is, however, a very successful concept. If you think ths can be worked with noname and wowei (or any of the other old school masters) more involved from the start then I am definitely in favour of a new beginning. I would also really like to see Jim involved in the early stages. As I said before, this evolved in a totally direction to what I anticipated and did settle on a fixed pattern slightly earlier than I expected too. Maybe the rules regarding the number of changes should be tightened a little and more strictly adhered to. Would you do the honours, adjust the rules as you see fit and formally open the new Games? |
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<Jim> Dave, 12e2 is alive and well. I had to modify it in order to make my solution work, it doesn't work on 12e2, believe me I tried! I made this to try to force my unique solution, but you managed to find another way, which was my fear. |
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<mm> (SPOILER) Hey guys (and girls?): IMO, we should not exagerate playing the creation of new levels, the aim of our teamwork can't be to create "unsolvable" levels. We've had the intention to create some new great levels, right or wrong? IMO, enough is enough. Let's play a new game! (Someone just HAS to try to STOP this! Or else we'll be creating new "we are the mods" levels for ever.) I'm the Grand-Ma, and I hope you'll be listening to my statement. I think it's time to start a new thing! This time, we'll do an even better job, right or wrong? And we might even get wowei and noname to play the game?! |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 1154 moves (old: 1470). Houston, we have a problem. That's 12e2 stuffed! |
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<mark> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 828 moves (old: 1112). mm hope this gives you a clue as to get the e and f levels. Thanks for playing. |
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<mark> Ps its just as well there is an undo button or i would never be bothered to solve them. If your next mod is harder i will adjust the ratings of previous level down a bit. I am not going to beg people to rate the levels, but it would be nice. I am only new to this game and when i make a level i always check to see the ratings its part of the fun. <mark> I will leave this up for now,so within the rules you can mod again. I could easy speedrun 12e2 to show you,but for a while i thought i was the only one solving the tougher levels.(No ratings) Bit of a shame really because i love watching other solutions. When i started this i did not intend it to be a competition,just a bit of fun and to see if it could produce a good level. That i think has been achieved and theres some really good levels in the bin. I thought Jims was smart,as i did not really see the difference as i had the spare piece in mind. Then it was oh s..t when i got trapped,thought it was funny. |
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<Dave> As blank templates go, it's seems a little lacking in blankness :) <Dave> Same rating rules as before... |
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<Dave> Hi Mark, I think you should leave this up for now. There will be another even tougher mod... <mark> (SPOILER) Had another look i know what your on about its actually easier that way. The thing is i dont always spot the easiest route when solving. I will leave it alone or else it might give to much away. The solution with this level is just a cleaned up version of the way i did 12e2. Might catch you one day,(i doubt it). <Dave> (SPOILER) Hi Mark. There is an alterative 12e2 method (just another variation on the same basic theme) which works here too. Unfortunately, I don't see any way of forcing without giving too much away. |
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<Dave> I don't think any of these levels should be deleted permanently, simply because it is fair that any future players can run through the levels in order of development, just as we are. I guess in an ideal world levels deleted because they are flawed (and therefore possibly spoilers) or ill-conceived would be separated from levels deleted because they have been out-evolved. I'll vote for another folder. <mm> Teamwork is fun! But I'm wondering if Tom7 really really will love our way to "overpopulate" the normal graveyard? If ever we will continue to team-work on new great levels - and I guess we will - we might ask Tom7 to introduce a new folder, some kind of a special "common teamwork" kind of graveyard? I am aware of the fact that Tom7 loves to keep each and every level that ever had been elaborated, but teamwork seems to be a new kind of creating levels, so maybe this special thing will need some special "graveyard"-folder-solution? I imagine some kind of a graveyard that expires after a certain time, let's say after 10 days or after a month or so? <mm> ...yet! |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 145 moves (old: 149). Not as tidy but a bit faster. |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Hi Mark, If the rating is too high it will get adjusted down anyway. These days, if a level seems between 8 and 9, I tend to rate 9 and let nature take its course. <mark> Dave this level is genius,in more than one way. 1st it has nearly named itself , We are the mods emc2. 2nd once i finally solved it i had more satisfaction than any other level. Want to give it a 10 i have scored 3 other levels 10 and this is defintely harder. Do you think 10 is to much? Ps i did it a lot differently to you but the net result was the same. close to 3000 moves first solve.Thanks great puzzle. <Dave> (SPOILER) Hi Jim, I agree that 12f doesn't force you (I mustn't say too say too much, walls have ears, but you will know exactly what I mean) to obtain all your resources in the most efficient manner. However, even with the aforementioned spare bit, I haven't managed to find a different solution method... that's why I like it: It's teasing me to cook it and haven't been able to yet. If you, I, or anybody does, the goalposts move. This one is designed to force better use of resources, I await your speedrun/mod to find out if it actually, for once, forced the intended solution. Nice to have you on board, in and light of your comments: Lets keep going for now. <Jim> I've enjoyed doing them all, each one has been a new challenge. Let's not rule out this version as the other one we keep, so far I haven't figured out the solution. The ony detriment to keeping 12f is that I had a leftover piece at the end, I like the solutions that use all of them. AS for the other thread, I actually like 11 and 12 (which was deleted) more than the ones after them. I was stumped on 12 for 3 days, it was disguised well and the later versions I thought were more obvious. <Dave> We do seem to be stuck in a bit of a rut here. Maybe it's time for a major revamp or a new template... any thoughts? 12a and 12f are the keepers so far. |
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