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<Tom 7> Thanks! |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) Right, it is not totally rigid in that sense. But sat problems with only one solution are often easier than ones that are less constrained. |
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<bunnyrape> I like this level; looks very complicated yet very simple.. and somehow manages to be neither. Now i'm going back to reading "Tautology for Beginners" :P |
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<bpotetz> (SPOILER) Oh. That's interesting. You know, even if both rows and columns could not be partially pushed, there would still be several solutions. And I think it would still map to a satisfiability problem. Anyway, looking forward to some cool new tiles! <Tom 7> (SPOILER) I mean two or four pushed all the way down. In my solution, in fact, if I pushed the columns all the way down, I would reset one of the tiles blocking the exit. |
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<bunnyrape> (SPOILER) Cook: Quite a few pieces unused (one switch and a teleport). |
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<bpotetz> OK - I definitely understand busy. mjn - That's no problem. In fact, make more levels like this. We got 3 or 4 good levels for the price of 1. |
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<bpotetz> (SPOILER) Two or four green spheres is also OK in a column, because there is nothing that forces you to push the entire column down. I just stop pushing after I get one in. |
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<bpotetz> (SPOILER) Max - this level is much cooler & more difficult than the last version. You had me pretty distracted for a while trying to break into the tree from underneith (which you can do by pushing down the two grey blocks). But I don't think you can solve it that way. Neat level. |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) So you're only supposed to need one green sphere (and definitely not two or four ;)) in each clause (column). That's not a cook, that's just my bad description. You're right about shifting 'both left and right.' Duh. Fortunately, this new tile I'm working on solves that problem nicely! <Tom 7> Oops, sorry, this is supposed to be Disjunctive Normal Form, not Conjunctive. |
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<Max> Yeah, I know Brian. I'm a little busy this week, but I'm playing them a little. They're just really hard! I definitely don't want them to be deleted, because now I really have to find the undoubtedly ridiculously clever solutions. It's just seriously hurting my 100% streak! ;) |
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<mjn> Got it! Man, that was crazy. I don't know *how* you thought of that... |
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<mjn> (SPOILER) Heh heh, I've actually been playing #2; just haven't solved it yet, is all. I really like #3, because of the sending-the-block-inside thing. (I skipped #1 because I'd already found a solution while working on the original) I find it kind of funny, actually, that I've been working to prevent people from using (mostly) harder solutions. <bpotetz> OK, lazybones. About the memoryless levels: All three have substantially different solutions, so keeping them all wouldn't really be so bad. I think they're all pretty interesting levels, and I can't figure out why no one is playing them. But if you want to get rid of one, the first one is flawed because you can cook it by solving it using the solution to version 2. Of course, I could fix it so it wasn't cookable... <bpotetz> Yeah - this is a better fix than the electric strip, I think. Nice level, mjn. <bpotetz> I am defeated! <Tom 7> Okay, I got rid of all of them but this one (-->graveyard). Brian, it's your call on the Memoryless Hole ones. Which one(s) should we keep? Do they have substantially different solutions (I haven't solved them yet..) |
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<bpotetz> (SPOILER) Cook: Cool idea, guys. I like levels based on abstract concepts, esp cool np-complete ones like satisfiability. Unfortunately, there's a couple ways to cook this one. The easiest is to just ensure that there is some non-zero number of green sphere in each column, and stop pushing them down one you get one in. You could stop this by installing a grey sphere at the bottom of each column that can only be moved down, onto a panel that locks the player into the column until they push down a second grey sphere (from the top of the column) that unlocks them. The other potential cook is that rows don't have ot be ternary - you can shift one partially in either direction. But that could be intentional. Anyway, I count 4 ternary solutions (and no binary solutions). |
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<mjn> Okay, this is *really* my final version now--I even put "final" in the title. If this gets cooked, it can stay cooked! (As for deletin', this is the only one I care about; I think at least one of Brian's Memoryless Holes would be cool to have, too.) |
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<Max> Can we start deleting unnecessary old versions of this and mods (if any) so I don't have to solve them? ;) <Tom 7> I agree that a strip of electric on the bottom will call too much attention to the blue sphere. |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) Here's another encoding of n-SAT in CNF. Aside from the crap having to due with blocking in the columns after you select assignments, this is a pretty dense encoding. Note the innovative use of breakable blocks for decorative effect, due to William. |
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<mjn> (SPOILER) Okay, here are my thoughts on fixing it: Item #1: If, at any point, the two black spheres are next to the laser, the panel must be used. Proof: The second (leftmost) can't move until the first moves, and the first must go down. The second must then go right, because you can't stand in front of the laser to push it left. At this point, it can't go up or down, so it has to go into the hole. Item #2: If there is electricity below the two black spheres, then they must go into the hole-area, and before any other spheres can. Proof: At the start, the blacks can't go up or down without disappearing, and the can't go left without some other sphere first getting stuck on the left wall, so they have to go right. The last blue is the only colored sphere that can be pulled out of line safely, and it can't go into the hole before the blacks because there's no way to bring a block down until three spheres are lined up at the hole. It may still be possible to destroy a black and then use a block in its place, but you'd still have to take a green or red out of order, which could only mean catching it with the blue once it's on the right wall, and then there'd be no way to get the blue in before it. Anyone see any holes in this? <mjn> (SPOILER) Yeah, I was thinking about the strip of electricity, but I'm worried that it might draw too much attention to the last blue sphere's unique situation. I was also thinking about putting a black square in the bottom right corner of the main space, like you did in Memoryless Hole #2. Would that break your cook? (Mine involved bringing the second black sphere down, then bringing a red down on top of it.) |
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