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<Doom> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 706 moves (old: 736). |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) Well, again I should emphasise that Adam has done a LOT of work to write the program, so it's not just pushing a button. And again, the program won't work on most levels. I hear it doesn't work on hardly any of my post-2003 levels, in fact, except for the letter series. Still, I do understand the sentiment. Aside from making levels that are strategically hard, so that computers can't yet solve them, is there something we can do to make everyone happy? |
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<KWM> 'Hugbots always have to do things the hard way.' uploaded by KWM: comments, suggestions, and modifications welcome |
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<Doom> (SPOILER) I think, that it is in a way unfair to use a program to solve levels. All you need is to press a button and BAM, a speedrun! The solutions are interesting to see, though. But they kinda defeat the purpose of competing for speed records. <Tom 7> (SPOILER) Sure, I think so, for a number of reasons: The (essentially) brute-force search is going to be limited to fairly simple levels (although I have been surprised at what it has been able to tackle, so far), so most levels will remain outside its grasp. If you do indeed make an optimal speed run, then you've got the record forever; no program can improve on the optimum! If Adam would agree to maybe hold off on optimizing new levels for a week or two after they're uploaded, that'll give humans a chance to do their best. Third, the speed run system is meant to inspire competition and help give an incentive to find cooks, but there aren't points or rankings or anything, so it's not really a big deal who has the speedrun. Personally speaking, I like to speedrun, and I feel good when I beat a record, but I really do like seeing people beat my records, especially when I had convinced myself that I had found the shortest possible solution. Finally, since he wrote the program himself, he did at least "pay his dues" in the sense of putting a lot of work into it.. although that's less direct than actually solving them manually, it is at least "fair" in the sense of getting payoff for work. <John Lewis> (SPOILER) Which makes me wonder: is Adam's use of a program fair? I spend a lot of time trying to analyze levels to come up with (hopefully) optimized solutions...anyway, just curious. :-) <Tom 7> (SPOILER) Yeah, I'd call that pretty clever except that a computer came up with it! ;) But, a good cook... <Feanor> Nice solution, Adam! |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 84 moves (old: 85). Optimal. |
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<John Lewis> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 130 moves (old: 134). |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 83 moves (old: 89). Optimal. |
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<John Lewis> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 106 moves (old: 108). |
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<John Lewis> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 88 moves (old: 90). |
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<John Lewis> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 87 moves (old: 89). |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 69 moves (old: 80). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 37 moves (old: 69). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 201 moves (old: 209). Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) (note: speedrun of 86 moves didn't break record; not added) Optimal. |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 16 moves (old: 22). Optimal |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) (note: speedrun of 86 moves didn't break record; not added) Optimal |
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<Adam> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 127 moves (old: 131). Optimal |
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<Tom 7> (SPOILER) Of course, the problem is the same as usual: I simply ran out of disk space on the server. <John Lewis> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 86 moves (old: 89). <Tom 7> Oops, posting when using Adam's player file obviously makes the message seem to come from him. ;) Tom 7 assumes responsibility for this bug! <Adam> OK, well whatever this bug is, I definitely need to fix it. |
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