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<Dave> (SPOILER) One counter-example that immediately comes to mind is Nice Airport. Where would that level be without the misdirection and redundant parts? noname's mod could probably get away without them because it has a great puzzle within the puzzle, but the original wouldn't be the same. Mind you, The Only Dalek is the perfect counter-counter-example. So that's that theory out the window! It does seem to be an unfortunate side effect of multiple modding that you inevitably end up with clutter. Somehow getting rid of it just doesn't feel right, it's like deleting other people's work, and I don't feel particularly comfortable doing that without their permission. So most of tends to get left behind in the hope that it will be re-incorporated later. I would be happy with a cleaned up version of the Red Balloon, but I would be much happier to see a version that brings the red bot and remotes back into play in a meaningful way. <mm> (SPOILER) I see what you mean and in general, I do agree. But once the ancestors of a level are deleted, those "red herrings" just don't make any sense any more, at least in the triage folder. To me, the triage folder had always been the place to go, I never really cared too much about the other folders. What you're saying does make a lot of sense once the history of a level is important - but once the ancestors are deleted, there is no more "history". I do understand your point, but I also understand my point of view. Good night, and I'm wishing you all a lovely Sunday! <Dave> I half agree. If it was a brand new level I would totally agree. I can only speak for myself, but I tend to leave the redundant bits in as a matter of historical interest. The level has developed organically and they show the process. Clearly in both levels the red bot is out of play, and in the Red Balloon, the three remotes are out of play because they no longer do anything worthwhile. The same applies to the bomb, the space has to filled with something so why not leave it there. Everything else is used, in fact some of the other mechanisms have developed more purpose. The trick to Jim's mod will also be needed in my version. In most other respects the intended solutions are very different, even though the Red Balloon solution is backwards compatible. <mm> (SPOILER) And it's me again... How can I get a solution from a level that is sitting in the triage folder when it's ancestor is in the minor leagues? I guess I can't, can I. But you did it, Dave! How? <mm> (SPOILER) Hi Dave! Thanks, I'll try again, it obviously is working, I always thought it might not work because I'm playing on a really old version of the game as I'm on Macs. I'm stuck on both levels... And it's annoying! But I really like your modded Mod level! It's lovely how you've managed to integrate my last tiles, you did exactly what I had more or less imagined, but of coures you did a way much better job than I had in mind. BTW: let's have a little talk about style: the DC5 level somehow has lost some of it's style points IMO. It had been better before, now there are lots of things integrated in it that are not used any more, and in general, I don't like that. Some red herrings are ok, but too many? If that red bot is not in the game anymore, so why does it has to sit there? It just doesn't make sense to me. It's not a critique, I'm just generally speaking. I usually would not rate a high style if levels do show such things. If I could solve that level, I'd do a mod and eliminate whatever isn't needed, I think that would give us a great base for former mods. What do you all think? <Dave> I did wonder why you posted there. Continued from 3563: Ctrl-0 only works on the directory you viewing at the time. You just need to come out of triage, go into Minor Leagues and run it again. Are you stuck on Jim's DC5 mod or mine? |
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<mm> (SPOILER) Thank you so very much, Dave! I am sorry for commenting in the wrong level again, I have no idea how this could happen again, silly me. I could see the things working, and it did indicate on top what levels it had been working on, and there had been a green growing line, too! So it worked. But I think it didn't look for levels in the minor leagues, it only checked the normal triage folder, right? How could I make it check the minor leagues as well? Any idea? O.k, no red, so I will continue trying... And I'll try to ctrl-0, too! ;) |
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<Dave> That depends whether you are trying to look for solutions in your player file or import them from somewhere else. In the former case you just need the name of your player file (e.g. mm.esp). If after you enter Escape seems to stop responding for a minute then ctrl-0 is working. In the last two mods it shouldn't be possible to get the red bot. <mm> (SPOILER) I need help: could anyone tell me how to ctrl-0? It says: "recover solutions from file:", but what should I type? What is meant by that or where could I find that ID-number? Second problem: is the red bot needed or not?! Answers are highly appreciated! |
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<mm> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 1016 moves (old: 1039). Should we continue working on this level? I think it is great the way it is! |
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<Dave> PPS. I'm not sure that one tapestry 950 years ago qualifies Bayeux as a 'tapestry town'. It's a bit like classifying Coventry as a place where the women ride naked on horseback... <Dave> Thanks noname. I have been having a play around with computer.dat this morning. On reflection, I think you a right that 5 and 10 are probably the only levels worth implementing (6 is clearly practically impossible). The force floors in 10 only ever move ice blocks which reduces the problem considerably and it certainly looks like it can be done, but my prototype mechanism is very cumbersome and certainly nowhere near worthy of upload. PS. Mark, you're forgetting me for a start. I may be a Londoner but I live about as far away from there as you can get (Strictly speaking: I live as far away from a spot in the Sahara just outside Tangiers as you can get whilst being confined to the surface of the Earth). :) |
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<Dave> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 954 moves (old: 1028). qwerty <Dave> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 1028 moves (old: 1768). I didn't do this on purpose! <Dave> I keep pressing ctrl-0. I know it wont acheive anything but it's very therapeutic. |
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<mm> (SPOILER) Great mod! |
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<mark> (SPOILER) Hi all, Hey Jim i was about 2 hours into the red balloon when i got to where your at and thought i'd cracked it.I went running to the exit pleased as punch that it was done only for the door to dissapear.How daft did i feel then, i put the dissapearing door in. I also thought you was from USA because when i kept saying grey you would say gray. Dave what's the 4 continents am i missing something i only make Europe and North America. The Blue Bayou was one of my early favourites that i could not solve,and always wondered why it was changed from a nice flatland river into some kind of tapestry town. Yes Dave i do like the levels where you roam free but one error early can scupper the level,but you don't necesarily know that. I had a check list of levels i really liked and always come back to, finshing it the other day with the "dont turn" levels. That level is so simplistc looking and obvious what needs to be done but sure is hard for a beginner. Had a quick go on mod 13 looks good and tricky but i have no time to play now for a couple of days. I'll still be checking comments,see you all have fun. <noname> (SPOILER) Re Dave: It has been a long time since I last played computer.dat. If I recall correctly, they are mostly just block pushing levels. Levels 1, 4, 9 have already been ported here. Levels 2 and 3 are easy to port, but they are also relatively easy. Levels 7 and 8 involves iceblocks, which are easy to implement in Escape, but I'm not sure if we want more of those block-pushy levels (though IMO level 8 is more difficult than 1-3 or 7). I actually tried to implement level 5, but the result isn't very natural as my implementation involved self-targeting transports in the place of water, so I did not upload it. I don't think Level 6 can be implemented. There are huge difficulties in implementing Level 10 due to those force floors, so I'm not sure if this can be implemented (though part of it may be doable). In any case, if you think the community wants more of those hard block-pushy sokoban-like levels, just go ahead. <Dave> PS. I do know how to spell Antarctica :) <Dave> Jim, I thought you were American, that's why I put your name up. 'Blue Bayou' was the giveaway, no BrE speaker would use the word 'bayou' (to be honest, I didn't even know what it meant until I looked it up). So, we've got 4 continents covered in the Mods levels, 3 to go, but I don't hold out much hope for Antartica! <Dave> (SPOILER) Done a Mod mod. The idea was to bring as many as possible of the new bits from Kirima's last mod into the game. May have gone a couple over the 10 changes. Can't guarantee the uncookability, in fact I'm pretty certain it will need tightening up, but the underlying solution shouldn't be affected. <Dave> I've never been to the States (flight transfers excepted) but somehow I feel I know that town... <Jim> (SPOILER) The game isn't completely in European hands, I'm in USA. Currently living in the small town of Stuporville as I can't solve the Red Balloon ones. I can get to the exit in 1100 moves but need a bot to take me the rest of the way, so obviously I'm doing it the wrong way. <Dave> After reading Kirima's comment, we have a new series series theme: Eurovision :=) No danger of running out of level titles... Got a vague idea where Gary and noname are but I have no idea where Jim is from though. <Dave> (SPOILER) Hi Mark, glad all over that you liked it like that :) Nice little shortcut. I'm not sure I want to edit it out because the core solution is basically the same and any further added security at this stage might be too much of a spoiler. If it gets properly cooked the story changes. I don't know about you, but I've always liked levels which maintain a high level of difficulty despite being not too rigid. It's nice to play around with them and try and find those little shortcuts. Unfortunately, as you know, trying to create that kind of level so often leaves a major vulnerability. I have no idea what to do with the Mods series yet, add more toys or try to work in Kirima's new bits? Will have a think about now I've caught up with everything again. Question for noname: as you are the expert on these, do you think it would be worth trying to implement more of the other computer.dat levels here? |
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