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<mm> (SPOILER) Dave, I actually did get a glimpse of a feeling that the main problem is sitting up there in that upper right compartment! I'm always missing one tile somewhere... -> same problem as usual, one tile is missing. I can easily get them all out there when I put the slider the other way! ;) I'll certainly continue trying to find the solution, but right now my brain is turning around in circles, I bet I urgently need a break from any modular thinking at the moment, hopefully some distance will help to see clearer?! Good night! <Dave> PS. re MT18. I don't know how far you have got with this level. Have you worked out how you can get all the yellow blocks out of their room without changing the slider direction? <Dave> Hi Kirima. Quick 'i' tutorial:- Get the MD5 of a SOLVED level (e.g. Modular Thinking 16). Go into Modular Thinking 18. Do not move from the start position. press 'i' and enter the MD5 of 16 (2fd717f4600478982e44d7461ea9856e). If it works the move counter will change from '0' to '0/xxxx' where xxxx is the length of your default solution to MT16 (e.g. '0/1473') as if you had done those 1473 moves and then undone them or pressed 't'. You can then use 'o' or 'p' to play through the old solution inside the new level. It will stop at the first illegal move, in this example it should be about 500 moves in. Press enter when the illegal move prompt comes up and you can continue playing from that point as if you had just done those 500 moves. This is NOT a hint, just a quick example! I'm not suggesting your first 500 moves of 16 will help with 18. As I said, it can be used in slightly different situations, but I won't go into that now. <mm> (SPOILER) Jim, thank you, I've already explored almost everything, 14a might count as a proof?! The only thing that I have not been able to spot yet is the proper way to solve those last levels..... ;( It is always the exactly same thing: I can fallow you guys to more or less exactly one step before the end or final level! I have no clue why this happens all the time, so in the meantime I'm wondering if this could be a question of my female brain that certainly is working a little bit different?! ;) (Isn't this a nice excuse?!) <Jim> (SPOILER) For Modular thinking MM, make sure you use that 5th dot properly to help you use all the resources that are available to you. |
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<Jim> (SPOILER) I actually don't have any great ideas for a mod on this, but your original is very good. Maybe you can reupload it, and if anyone wants to modify it they can. |
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<mm> (SPOILER) 15 degress less, YES! It's midnight and only 20 degrees Celsius outside! :) I'm feeling so much better and trying to cool the house right now. Thank you all for trying to help me again! But I just don't get it... :( I neither get the "i" thingy nor our last mod-levels. But I think I've finally understood the "zero" feature. (At least I had got that MD5 number before, but it is really annoying to type it as just copying the number doesn't work.) As I couldn't solve those evil levels, I've been working on a new template with bots on two sides. I'm going to upload it and we'll see what will happen, hopefully you'll like it? |
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<mm> Thanks guys! This mod certainly only exists because I've been desperately seeking whatever kind of possible solutions... I could re-upload it if ever, but an intelligent spin-off mod sounds great as well. |
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<Dave> PS. I found Hugbot Research Lab the best level for learning bot manipulation, but Single File is a good one too. Mind you, I still haven't beaten Land of 10000 bots, so what kind of expert am I? ;) <Dave> I stand corrected. It was John Lewis who posted the 462 run. It was also JL who uploaded the original adaptation of 'success' so maybe he gave up the solution on purpose, who knows? Sorry Eric. MD5 is the checksum of a level which is used to identify it. It appears as a 32 digit hex number (look down at the level title whilst typing a comment and you will see it). <mark> (SPOILER) Ps it was not Eric that posted first speedrun someone else did. Ever since i've been reading comments i always rememeber vaguely what i've read. I'd always been trying to work out the level that you speedrun and regretted. It makes sense to me now its a level i've not completed. I had a look at the level last week and read all the comments ,then did not bother with it . Yours and Radiants chat just blew me away. I had no idea how to do this level when i first stumbled into it spent my time trying to kill the hugbots. I now know thats wrong,bot manipution i've still not cracked if theres more than 2 bots. I have not played another level this week Modular Thinking was enough,i'm going to give single file a few hours to see what i can come up with.(fingers crossed i might do it,let you know if i have any luck) <mark> Made a mess of last post as i did not think it through enough. What i meant or should have said is,if in the first version of the level there is a block that is not movable but also not needed you still have to walk around it. Then in the modded version it is taken out, if you cross the path of the block which is now not there that is when the solution for modded version ends. Hope this is a bit clearer. I also like you Dave am a bit lazy but i still don't know the "i" function. When pressed it asks for MD5 of level i don't know what that is or what to type. I think this would be handy to know so when i make a mod eg avalanche 4Gf i would not have to sit swaping from screen to screen doing about 6 moves at a time just to get the best solution. |
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<Dave> To be honest Jim, I did consider modding it, but there are only so many hours in a day. It will lead to something to completely different and is probably worthy of a spin-off series. Go ahead! <Jim> (SPOILER) This is another level that I think should be kept. It has a unique solution that no other modular thinking level had, and it was fun to find. |
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<Dave> I always find myself typing 'it's' instead of 'its'. I know what I should type but my finger ca'n't stay away the apostrophe. <Dave> Sorry Kirima, my clue was not intended to be as cryptic as that, should've thought a bit more about the wording... Before you leave the bottom left room you must return the sliders to their original orientation, the 'evil' slider is there to force you to do this, it serves no other purpose. I'm clearly much lazier than Jim. If a mod shares say the first 1000 moves with a previous solution, as sometimes happens, I just 'i' it in and only do the changed bit manually. e.g. Avalanche 2. It's also really handy time-saver when the change in a mod is so subtle that it, or it's effect, is hard to spot. It can be used in other situations but they are very rare. Ctrl-0 will import solutions from your player file, it doesn't care or know which level they originally related to or where the level is located. However, it will only check those solutions against levels in the current directory. That's why Optimization 462 will grab Eric's spoiler speedrun from the Minor Leagues version. I guess, at some point, many of us have uploaded a speedrun and regretted it later, I know I have, but once you've done it there is no going back (see the Single File series for an really good example... but ultimately it directly led to the creation of Quintuple File). <Jim> (SPOILER) I finally caught up with the modular thinking series, don't give up MM. I've been trying to solve them as long as you and I finally saw something new that was the break-through on level 18. Dave, thanks for that Ctrl-Down suggestion, I never knew that one and it helped immensely in viewing the bots on the bottom of the screen. I've only used CTRL-0 once since I've been playing this game, its probably a coincidence but after using it that one time, I had the problem with my bookmarks not saving properly. If a mod for a level requiring 1500 moves is necessary, I just do it again, its no big deal to me. <mark> Hi MM,its how you solve the level that counts.What i meant by that say there is a block in the way in the original solution you solved, so you walk around it. But if the modded version has a wall, hole or electric in its place it will not Ctrl +o. THats because it only rememembers exact solutions. Even if you only walk over one tile that changed to something solid but theres loads of space around it , Ctrl + 0 can not recognise solution. It happened to me in Modular Thinking when you took out a slider by the yellows. For me to get Ctrl+0 to work i had to pretend the slider was there and push it to the side. Hope this message is clear written in a rush ,i'm going down the pub now. Its been the best day of the year over so far 23 degrees, so its making me thirsty. By for now <mm> (SPOILER) Hi Dave and Mark, thank you both for trying to give me a hint! Mark had been right, I didn't get that cryptic one, I just had not been sure if I just don't read English well enough or if I'm too silly to understand? (Also abbreviations are very difficult for me, or shortcuts, sometimes even typing errors can become difficult.) Unfortunately, the hints didn't help... :( I think I'll give up for the moment. Thanks Mark for trying to help me to understand ctrl-zero! What do you mean by "but the thing is, it how you solve the previous level that counts"? Dave, snow sounds wonderful! Over here, we are suffering, it's not even summer yet, but already way too hot and the nights are tropical as well. The forecast says that by Friday, it will get 15 degrees Celsius cooler, so I'm looking forward to the weekend! |
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<mark> Now we got holes the rule about red blocks has to change they are ok. |
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<mark> (SPOILER) Hi all, MM i found out something yesterday that you was inquiring about a few days back.That is Ctrl +0 does solve from levels sitting in other directories,but the thing is, it how you solve the previous level that counts. When i first found out about Ctrl +0 it was about March time and it solved "optimization 462" had no clue why. I was looking at the level comments for that level yesterday and it dawned on me there was another level called 9999 in the minor leagues. That was a very sneaky fishing exercise, which even radiant clocked. Then someone went and speedrun it anyway. Dave did know Ctrl + down but its my sheer confusion with the rest of the level that lies ahead it makes me think i've done the bots only to find i did not number them correct. When i'm playing levels i don't know the answer to i get block in the back of my mind that stops me from thinking straight,and economy of moves does not even come into play. Was going to do a more subtle mod for 20 which would have involved placing a dissapearing red panel where noname rested the red ball in 19,when he was sorting green ball out. I think it would have worked but then i took no chances and plopped in the obvious. Ps your cryptic for Kirima is a bit confusing maybe its not a cryptic but we should stay on the "LEVEL". Up and down is just no good. |
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<Dave> Your oversight was overseeing my oversight. So I got in first! Apologies. |
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<Dave> Mark, if you use ctrl-down you can scroll the screen down. It wont let the player go closer than three spaces from the edge, but this is easily enough to have the bottom rows on screen while working in the middle room. <Dave> (SPOILER) Back in town and back up to speed on ML. Was puzzling away on 19 when I suddenly realised my 'mistake' in 18, so quickly did 20 and ctrl-0ed 19. I would be very surprised if this series is over and we don't see noname's ideas creep back in a revised form. We'll see what happens when everbody is on the same page. Hi Kirima, re the naughty slider: Sometimes things may seem impossible because they actually are .) Don't let yourself get sidetracked, or is that downtracked? Once you get one of these levels the others should fall into place. PS. Got an Antarctic storm coming in tonight. They're expecting over a metre of snow overnight in some places down South. I haven't seen snow since London 2007, and although I do sometimes miss proper Winters, I think I'll wimp out and stay up North and settle for rain and gales! |
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<noname> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 2003 moves (old: 2504). First solve. Don't know why I missed that. Great mod. |
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