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<gary> ...but wait, people may use the "THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE!!!" comment on this level, because people may find that this is "impossible". <gary> Well, beginners in Escape usually play the "Very funny." directory and play the ones which are too easy for them... And they rate them without playing. <radiant> I guess I won't need to release my solution key level then. Speaking of which, who was the most recent rater here, who put up a 9 in difficulty? |
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<radiant> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 7 moves (old: 9). |
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<Tom 7> By request. It's a fantastic creation but maybe a bit cruel to have it in the main collection. Radiant, very impressive. <Tom 7> (admin) Moved to triage/veryfunny. |
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<Tom 7> Devin, thanks for playing. The keys like 'y' and 'd' exist precisely to discourage levels like the ones you made. Back in 1998 these were fun or funny, but people are pretty sick of them now. I'm glad you're experimenting but you can be pretty sure your levels will be automatically moved away to the minor leagues if they're like these. When I make a level, it usually takes me several days of work to get it just right. I look forward to seeing some creative ones from you! Gary: I'm generally not unilaterally moving levels to minor leagues any more. I want triage to be a place where anybody can share their levels, and have the community decide what's great and what's still practice. I think the automatic moving from triage to minorleagues is working pretty well, with the possible downside that it always takes at least 5 days, even for obviously crummy levels. What's missing is a counterpart of minor leagues for levels that have been rated highly by players or that come from designers with excellent track records. I've been meaning to finish doing that but I'm ashamed to say I haven't worked on the escape source code for quite a while. If it gets bad I will act, because I want escape to keep functioning, though. JL: Thanks for your nurturing comment and props for being brave enough to type a comment that long and thought-out into the level comment editor. ;) radiant: Yeah? I've thought about doing that kind of thing but I'm skeptical that anybody would really read it. (Or at least, the kinds of people that we'd want to educate.) Still it might be fun to have community documentation even if only the experts are using it. |
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<gary> 'Safety Security' uploaded by gary: Handmade. |
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<gary> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 9 moves (old: 19). 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 <devin> 'No Passing Zone' uploaded by devin: Too Many Exits!!! Annoying Kinda... |
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<Mom1> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 470 moves (old: 540). <Mom1> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 540 moves (old: 648). |
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<devin> radiant you got a cook 10 20 30 40 is a cook <radiant> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 46 moves (old: 54). <devin> radiant its a cook and how did you get 30? the lowest number should be 54. <devin> 'Pop-Up Pairs (Not The Cook Fix)' uploaded by devin: read the first one |
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<devin> its A COOK <devin> its a COOK <devin> in This case Buml LOL <devin> Bump! |
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<radiant> This is why the game could use an extensive literature base outside of level comments. Personally I'm surprised that whole thing was allowed to fit in a single comment. It's certainly worth an article for general consumption in any case. |
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<radiant> (SPOILER) Added speedrun: 37 moves (old: 54). Should this count as a cook or not? <devin> 'Pop-Up Pairs' uploaded by devin: THIS IS A MINIGAME NOT A GUESSING GAME!!! How To Play:Start On The Blue Dot Then Look At The Blocks On The Left. Which Are The Same? Once You Found The Pairs Go On The Layer Of Dots Its On For Example... Sleep Door And Two Way Arrow Which Are On The Top Layer If Your On The Top Layer And The Sleepy Door OR The Two Way Arrow (Which Are On The Top)Like If Ones Beside You Get A Match Move Left OR Right If The Pair Is Above You Move Up If The Pair Is Below You Move Down (REMINDER!!! IF THEY ARE BESIDE YOU ITS LEFT OR RIGHT... And Thats How To Play------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ps.D and Y are a bad idea its just A MINIGAME |
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<John Lewis> Devin, I don't want to discourage you from creating levels in general, but if you release levels, please at least try to put some effort into designing something unique and interesting. If you look at the "Minor Leagues" subcategory of levels, many of the ideas used there are all quite trivial and have all annoyed players to no end over the years. Most of these can be condensed down to a few categories (and this is for anyone who seeks to post quality work): (a) Guessing levels. These include "panel mazes" where lasers are hidden underneath panels or something to that effect, "button guesses" where the player must choose which panel/button is correct while evading death that would occur if any of the others were chosen, and "teleport forks" where the player must choose which teleport does not lead to doom - many of these decision points occur in a series, as can be seen in your (plagiarized) level "Clostrafobicy." (b) Heart framer collecting levels. In these levels, the player is mindlessly collecting heart framers. Sometimes, there's a bot or two that may cause trouble, but otherwise, there isn't much of a challenge or anything interesting here. (c) Bot brawl levels. There are way too many levels that contain a bunch of bots (or sleeping bots) that the player must fight through in order to escape to the exit. Some of the more interesting levels of this nature are those that are computer generated (the "Botkoban" levels), which are challenging because they are rigid - not a random mishmesh of bots. (d) Tedious levels. Whether block-pushing or gangnails-style remote levels (for instance, The Sign Says "Stop!"), these levels typically involve no thinking or skill at all. (e) Ripoffs. I haven't been the best example of originality on here, I must admit - which is something I've been seeking to fix over the past year or two. (I was quite blind to it when I first started posting here, which caused some tension with a few people...) There are levels out there involving concepts that are obviously lifted from other, more well-thought out levels. In many of these cases, the style rating will most likely be low. People have played through a certain type of level before - they don't want the same thing over and over again unless there's something unique also involved. So what does make a good level? This is something I've posted about before on the Chip's Challenge community - and I think it's worth mentioning here as well. Honestly, it all depends on what the level is trying to accomplish. These are the terms in which great designers think when creating levels. Most great levels have artistic/aesthetic value and/or contain a great puzzle or two - factors that contribute to higher difficulty and style ratings. They work because the designers use what they have effectively based on the objectives they set out to fulfill. Some levels are simple but boast amazing artistic quality. Others contain variety or fun puzzles. I believe the best levels combine any or all of these elements in some form and contain a fair amount of replay value at the same time. Also, as alluded to earlier, many good levels do not require arbitrary guesswork. Pretty much every designer out there usually follows one of these three procedures when using the editor: (a) Just start drawing in the editor, making up objective(s) along the way. (b) Think up a good idea or theme first and then start designing it. (c) Mimic or create a variation of an idea from an existing level. (b) is probably the best option, as it involves more planning and organization on the part of the designer. There have been far too many levels out there created with (a) only, and usually, they end up being far too disorganized and uninspired. (c) can actually work as long as the designer tries to aim for creativity at the same time, but if this is not the case, sometimes the level can look like a ripoff of an earlier composition. In Escape, some of the greatest levels have a tight solution (Grand Prix), a "twist" in the gameplay in which the player follows a red herring only to discover that the solution is totally different (Bigger Waste of Time), or interactions between different rooms (Dialectic). Hope this helps. :) Once again, I don't want to discourage you from creating levels, but please try to keep in mind that many of the folks here have seen far too many levels like this in the past. <radiant> There's also N which conveniently comes in handy on this level. |
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